The Living Off the Land Fallacy

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living off the landA common plan tossed around by survivalists and preppers is this idea that in the event of martial law or some other crisis, they are going to head off to the hills, presumably for weeks or months, and just live off the land.  While this sort of plan might appeal to the pioneer and bushcraft spirit, if nothing else, the reality is that for most people, this is just planning to fail.

Basic Problems

There are a few problems with falling into what I call the Living Off the Land Fallacy.  For starters, while the DNR isn’t likely going to be enforcing fair hunting rules, you aren’t going to be the only goofball out there with a rifle or bow.  If you’ve ever gone hunting with someone brand new to it, you know just how frustrating, even dangerous, it can be.  They don’t know how to be quiet.  They want to take shots that are risky at best.  They just don’t know what the heck they are doing, right?  Now, multiply that times a thousand as there are going to be a ton of other folks, just like that, out there looking for their own dinners.

On top of that, it won’t take long before tens of thousands of house pets are going to turn feral and be competing with you for the small game.  Granted, some folks might look at that as just being an addition of potential targets for lunch.  Even so, competition is going to be fierce.  It won’t take long before even the ubiquitous squirrel is scarce.


What about fishing?  Okay, not a bad plan but do you really think you’re going to be the only Babe Winkelman out there wetting a line?  Plus, likely as not you’re also going to have at least a small segment of the population who will sit on the sidelines and wait for someone to reel in a good sized bass, then take it from them by hook or by crook.

I grew up in an area where deer hunting is akin to religion.  The school district darn near shuts down during gun season, given how many students head up north with their parents to see about adding a trophy to the wall.  These people have been hunting for generations and know all the tricks.  Yet, for all of that, only about a third of them are successful in a given year.  Granted, that’s big game, but still, food for thought.

Wild Edibles

As for wild edibles, that’s something to consider, but you need to know what you’re doing so as to avoid poisonous lookalikes and such.  Plus, consider the fact that the crisis may hit in the dead of winter, when not too many things are growing in abundance.

Don’t get me wrong. I’m not suggesting you abandon all plans for hunting/fishing/trapping/gathering.  Instead, consider those options as ways to supplement what you’ve stockpiled and grown on your own.  Generally speaking, the plan would be to have enough food packed away to get you through at least one, if not two, complete growing seasons.  Have plans in place for growing much of your own food from seeds you harvest yourself.  Raise chickens, goats, and other potential meat sources.  Learn now the best ways to preserve meat if you don’t have access to electricity, and thus freezers.

Above all, abandon the attitude of “Me hunter. Me go kill meat for family.”  That way of thinking will indeed likely result in a death, but probably not of the four-legged variety.

55 thoughts on “The Living Off the Land Fallacy”

  1. Thank you for this article! As a former farmgirl, my last-ditch escape plan is exactly what you’ve described above, but I get irritated by the websites and articles that make it sound like the ideal. We need to learn from history. Even at a time when game was plentiful and people scarce, there were still many days when hunters came home empty-handed. In addition to that, the hunter-gatherer lifestyle was a full-time commitment. Many of the early tribes moved frequently because they followed the herds or moved on when the local flora was depleted. Farming came about because people realized the futility of moving on when there was nothing to move TO. Leaving your home base to move into the wild will only work if you understand that you’re simply exchanging one set of problems for another and that life in the woods will be harder than you’ve ever imagined. A much better plan is to stock up and stay put.

  2. Excellent post, and excellent response from SingleMom.

    I grew up in the country and well remember those harsh winters when my dad would take off with a shotgun to find us a meal. We would have gone hungry if we had depended on wild game for each meal. Thankfully my mother kept a winter garden, canned food, and knew how to stretch a dollar to feed a family of seven.


  3. The study of survival and primitive living skills is what introduced me to permaculture. Permaculture holds the ultimate solutions to some (many/most?) of the basic questions asked by the survivalist/prepped community. A man with a food forest and the means with which to inhabit such a place to the exclusion of all others is one resilient individual.

    As one example, with proper storage facilities and by planting apples with sequential drop times, one can theoretically eat apples year round. What’s more, apples trees don’t have to be replanted every year.

      1. Just a question. When you ” get away ” do you ever think that the area you are going to might already be occupied ? I live in the Sierra Nevada mountains and I am sure that many of the people from the flatland’s think they will be coming up here to do just what you suggest. They are not going to be welcome in the least and the local’s WILL defend their area from intruders the same as you would defend your home. The game,fish, water ect will be considered OUR’s and a stranger will not be tolerated. Trust me on this and stay home.

  4. The study of survival and primitive living skills is what introduced me to permaculture. Permaculture holds the ultimate solutions to some (many/most?) of the basic questions asked by the survivalist/prepped community. A man with a food forest and the means with which to inhabit such a place to the exclusion of all others is one resilient individual.

    As one example, with proper storage facilities and by planting apples with sequential drop times, one can theoretically eat apples year round. What’s more, apples trees don’t have to be replanted every year.

    If you’re not familiar with permaculture, search out Geoff Lawton who is perhaps the premier permaculture instructor in the world today. He has made many excellent videos about the subject and has made the available to view for free.

  5. After a crash or SHTF most people will die in less than 3 months. I tell friends in 1 month 90% will be dead. I hunted and been to 3 survival schools in the military. A rabbit will feed 1 or 2 maybe for a day and your best bet is to learn to eat long pig (humans). I have a months food and water but I’ll have to fight to keep it – can you fight off hungry people trying to steal your food and kill your family? I can since I’m a sniper and live on a dead end road! My family all shoot and I know how to smoke meat – do you?

  6. All idiocy aside,people better work together and try to prevent the big one from happening,After Lucifers Hammer or Skynet or a big nuclear event,things will get lean quick and guess whose family will get fed?
    As the writer sez,for pitys sake people,make plans for a few months provisions and defense at least,those powerful deer rifles will change your life in an instant,with all the people around wildlife will disappear quickly-better to get the community involved without listening to the FEMA wannabees

  7. I live in an area with a deer hunting tradition also, though it has declined over the years. I agree that in a crisis, game of all types will rapidly be depleted. After that, watch our Preppers and all those with any livestock or gardens because there will be thousands of desperate hungry men, with or without families, with a deer rifle and a box or two of ammo.

  8. While I mostly agree, I have to point out that in a survival situation you aren’t just hunting deer and rabbit. Even starlings and crows are edible.

    As to fishing, you will never run out of seafood in a salt water environment. While your hungry neighbor may be putting all his effort into catching a big stripped bass a survivalist will make a minnow trap out of a couple of old soft drink bottles and catch plenty of protein in short order.

  9. Good article.
    Another question to ask when someone says ‘live off the land’ is “what land?” There are 300 million people here who will all be competing for food off of smaller and smaller pieces of such food producing land. The only solution to that problem is to move up north to northern Canada or Alaska, and of course, that results in other problems, including the cold.

  10. Chickens and life stock also need to eat. what are you going to feed them?
    If you plan on raising your food you better start immediately. It takes seven years to be a farmer. It requires more skill and knowledge than you imagine and you can forget about throwing some 10-10-10 on the ground . Where are you going to get the fertilizer ?
    Are you going to use a shovel to dig up a couple of acres? You can’t survive on a dozen ears of corn and some lettuce.

    I wonder if there are not some who look at google maps scouring the rural areas for leads on gardens, chicken houses and the like.

  11. Instead of occupying Wall Street, how about a few thousand unemployed and angry people occupy the White House, it having been demonstrated how easy it might be to scale the fence and get inside before the Secret Service drops its cellphones and reacts to the barking dog.

  12. Great observations in the article and comments. In a complete infrastructure break down scenario, getting far away from urban areas is the foremost problem, and having a prepared place of refuge would be best. After a month or two, I can imagine cannibalism being the biggest threat to survival in major cities.

  13. During the depression deer and moose almost became extinct in northern Alberta. Anything that could be eaten was shot, snared or netted. The population then was less than 20% of what it is now. Sustanence hunting is not a viable option.

  14. The one-third figure for successful hunters is probably right, but it is not strong support for the argument. Many hunters choose not to shoot a deer for fear of the lurking law enforcers. A shot made just two minutes later might be clearly legal in the morning but ends up meaning a missed opportunity on a grand buck. Waiting for a better shot is not always helpful as a shot made two minutes too late might be illegal close to sundown.

    Laws governing legal hunt times, bag limits, possession limits, legal game by sex, seasons by weapon, etc. become irrelevant to those trying to live off the land.

    While it is true that one trades one set of challenges for another when leaving the comfort of home for the hunt, it might be the only reasonable choice for those who face imminent starvation.

  15. Since when did living off the land come to mean living like paleolithic man in nomadic hunter gatherer groups? With the human population now numbering in the billions that tactic would last about one day before all wildlife became extinct. Maybe I’m mistaken but at some point during the last 10,000 years didn’t humans learn that it was far more efficient to plant seeds and raise domesticated animals? Maybe we should try that option first which means one or two acres of well drained land per household, water, and electricity.

  16. This is the 3rd article on this topic I’ve stumbled upon in the last week. The problem I see is that most of us have become waaaaaaay too domesticated for living off the land to make sense. Few have the skills, let alone the intestinal fortitude to actually do it. Damn near the whole of the country used to know farming, hunting, trapping, wild edibles, etc, etc. That is knowledge that is harder to come by as we become more and more domesticated as a society. If you can get that knowledge, many just don’t care. Why should they when they can just go to the grocery store and never get their hands dirty for that juicy T-Bone. We used to be very self sufficient. We had to be to live, but as we’ve domesticated, we’ve become more dependent on societies offerings (grocery stores, etc…) than the land. Up until ‘modern times’, we ALL hunted the land, grew our own food, raised our own chickens, cows, goats etc. It’s not that it’s impossible by any stretch for us to do again, but potentially very difficult for those that are more domesticated among us. Admittedly there were less of us back then, and I’d venture a guess that if we all went out to hunt/fish/live off the land at once, things would likely get sparse, pretty quickly. In our domestication, we’ve lost a LOT of the skills and knowledge we once needed for our very survival. Unfortunately now, many of us have become too lazy, too fat, too comfortable, too entertained and too distracted, for the skills necessary, to not just survive, but LIVE off the land, to matter.

  17. I remember driving the “Skyline Drive’ in the late 70’s. There was a sign that said the land was purchased from the locals because the land had been worn out and the game eliminated. And when you’re deliberately hunting/snaring squirrels, you are REALLY desperate.

    1. When I was a kid, my Dad brought home rabbits, squirrels, ducks, geese, and fish from hunting and fishing. We ate them all.
      Squirrels are good, with a not-surprisingly nutty taste.

  18. Point taken but do remember that if the situation arrises where there are a lot of other “goofballs” in the wilderness competing for the same scarce food sources the situation must be critical.

    So if the situation is that critical and you suggest raising your own meet source like chickens, cattle and what not you better be armed to the teeth to defend agains local “goofballs” and ready to defend your goods 24/7, something I believe few will be able to do.

    By the way, whenever I accidently stumble upon an article that calls their fellow man a “goofball” just because they think differently I have to wonder about the character of the author.

    To sum, your original point of others competing for the same food in the wilderness is fine but your remedy to raise your own food is fraught with fallacy and problems.

  19. Excellent article! And so true! Africa is just a decade or two away from eating all their animals in the form of bushmeat. The poachers are turning to giraffe now. In the 1960’s as a child I never saw a deer in Minnesota near the cities, now because of full supermarkets I see a lot. But a worldwide depression happen and people will start to grab everthing.

  20. All you have to do is watch a show called the legend of mick dodge to get an idea of hard it could be . It took him prolly up to 10 years to condition his body to run on as few calories as 1000. Also you better get used to eating lots of WORMS and other insects . My suggestion would not to be s dogmatic in your approach .
    For the Creator said this for ye are of more value than 100 sparrows . John the Baptist’s food was locusts and wild honey .
    Only fool thinks that the stuff you put in your mouth is actual food .

    Did you know that some people have farmed catfish in 50 gallon fuel drums ?

  21. First off, thanks for a wonderful article. I have read many survival sites and it seems just about everyone pushes to go and live off the land. As you so nicely stated, living off the land is just not feasible for 99 percent of the populace. They are untrained and do not know what they are doing. I and my family have been living in the Great North woods of Michigan for most of my life, and for those of us who live here, we do not want a bunch of “tender foots” mucking up the place. The way several of my friends and I have it figured, the majority of people will come out here and get themselves killed and leave us a lot of nice gear and equipment. Let me ask everyone out there, if you do happen to kill something, do you know how to field dress it, skin it, and then process it so it won’t go bad and waste what you harvested?

  22. Depending on the source anywhere from 50 to 75% of the people in this country use one or more prescription medication. So, when those are not available, the bodies will start piling up. Add to that all those who are in just lousy shape even if they are not on meds and you have a lot of food available for the healthy among us 🙂

  23. Neverleftbehind1957

    awesome article as always, I do agree there was one guy that was talking about people on medications people that weren’t healthy isn’t it always survival of the fittest. It is sad to say that our societies have become so reliant on food chains and ordering food online. Our family is working on the gardens and I’ve been canning now for 2 years. Someone else also made a comment about people converging on areas that they know people have food. You had made a comment about stop showing off that you’re a survivalist because people will be coming to you first looking for food. We do ours quietly and we are definitely not flashy people. So yes all of the comments above were very good and they make you think about other scenarios.

  24. I’m glad to see this sage advice. No matter how I run the scenarios, I don’t see a way in which anyone from S. California could hope to get far enough away from people to be able to survive off the land. There just isn’t enough fresh water anywhere! I’m aiming for a more shelter in place approach.

  25. As a farm girl all grow up – the plan has always been to hole up in place. The crazies will be out in full force.

  26. Everyone who wants to survive aSHTF situation should develop skills such as take to the woods, live quiet and sneaky without a fire and without cooking your food. Won’t take long for any hungry person or hungry animal to smell that yummy fish you happened to catch. Or to see the glow of your embers in the dark of night. This is after you have been evacuated from your home and prepped stash of food. And that you were lucky enough to live. Don’t worry no matter how careful you are someone will be watching and waiting for you to
    Make a mistake. To leave your home for a minute. And if you don’t they will come in to get you. How long can you hold off and angry mob of hundreds hungry for your three month or three year supply. No matter how good a shot you are or how good your ammo stockpile is, there will be more of them than there is of you and yours. You will be overwhelmed eventually. You need to be strong of heart mind body and soul. Not many can see or face the ugly reality of the human animal. Good luck.

  27. Bugging out won’t work for many….
    1.) More than likely, martial law will take effect and all of your supplies will be taken at roadblocks
    2.) The roads will be so blocked off, you won’t be able to get anywhere
    3.) Planning and preparing are the ONLY ways to get through it

    My plan…
    I am luckily surrounded by 3 homes that have swimming pools. 2 out of 3 of them bill bug-out based on their personalities (sheep) I will use their water and form an alliance with the other neighbor. He has a large wrought iron gate that couldn’t be knocked down by anything other than a tank. My family will meet me here, and we will bug-in.

    I have scoped out my neighborhood for fruit trees and wild edibles. More than likely, nobody will stay, so I will have free range of it all.

    My strengths are definitely food. I will be getting chickens this year and will trade firearms and gold for a milking cow if necessary. I also have many other “bartering” tools in my prepping closet. Especially alcohol. Not just good for drinking, but disinfecting wounds as well.

    Other than my food storage, I also know where all the deer and wild turkeys are where I live.

    I plan on riding my bicycle to the nearest pier for fish and crabbing once a week.

    Hygiene is of the utmost importance due to my significant other having CF and several other ailments. Stocking up on her meds is near impossible, but I have a one month supply of her medications after working hard at it.

    Will be getting solar in 2 months. I will have a back up inverter and batteries to take my home off grid if necessary. This will help me with cooking and cleaning-especially the necessity of vacuuming.

    Will HOPEFULLY get a fireplace insert. This way, we can stay warm in the winter without having all the particulates bother my partner’s lungs.

    Other than that, alliances are key. There is one person in my neighborhood that might “have to go”. She has a big mouth and would bring looters here in a heartbeat. She is over 80 years old and just doesn’t know any better.

    1. Riding a bike will get you killed faster than you can pedal. It’s a great idea to fish etc but don’t you think many other people will have the same idea? There will also be, as someone else noted, people who will wait for others to catch fish and crabs etc and simply take them from you. They’ll take your bike as well. Even if you’re armed, you may be out gunned. If you are going to fish, do it at night or before dawn and have armed support with you to watch your back. Also keep in mind that others may have scoped out the food sources in your area. Know that If you can’t protect it, you won’t keep it. I suggest getting other preppers to join with you to gather food and to defend what you have or are collecting. You can’t do it by your self.

    2. You raised the issue of medications. If you can get a prescription for an additional couple of months of medications you can go to a pharmacy (other than your usual company) and fill those prescriptions by paying cash. This should buy your partner a few more months. Best of luck.

  28. Thanks for scarin the riff raff, They will be better off in the fema camps. As for me, i’ll take my chances out in the wilderness. I bet I can get pretty damn primal pretty damn fast. Survival is in the brain, Thank You for your time.

  29. Great article. Thanks! Since we all agree game will be scarce we have planted trees that bear nuts & fruit and trees and shrubs that produce berrie. These are not only for personal consumption but to lure in birds, squirrels, deer and other game. Better to have them come to us than we try to go find them. Its not perfect but it gives us a better chance at protein. In case we are overrun and our food stores are taken, we plan to bury foods like pemican, MRE’s etc, weapons, seeds and water filtering items in caches in the woods surrounding our property. We’ll retrieve or come back for them at night. Same goes with full back packs placed off the property.

  30. Great article and definitely applies to people who think they can just walk into the woods and eat.

    I have a different plan. To spent every month of every year unti SHTF foraging and learning how to process acorns, cattails, pine nuts, etc. To cultivate patches of dandelion etc in sunny spots in the woods. To grow patches of heirloom seeds where woodland meets fields. To do this planting in small patches over a very large area, and try to protect it with branches arranged as if the just fell there.

    To bug out with enough rice and beans to use sparingly while getting started or during hard winters. As well as salt, oil, honey, and B12. Vitamin C is easy by drinking pine needle tea.

    First of all to bug out as deeply as possible into DNR or other wooded land, to places only seasoned hunters would go.

    To make campsites that look like piles of forest debris. To boil water and cook using Dakota fire holes to minimize smoke.

    And also, to be able to break camp and move on very quickly.

    And yes, I need to learn fishing and trapping which you can probably tell I don’t want to. But it could be life or death in terms of fat, protein, and calories.

    Thanks so much for listening!

  31. True Story: Some time in the 1930-1950s, White tail deer were hunted to near extinction in the LA-MS-AL area. State govs had to take charge and repopulate with deer from other states. Today hunting is very popular in the same areas largely due to smart state regulations. Be careful in repeating this though, I only remember it vaguely from junior high state history. Do research. The above three state’s have more rural than urban area and are terrific areas to bug out to, but look what happened. I suppose this only reinforces the above article.

  32. This will be a bit wordy – so stick with it.
    Phase One:
    It’s happened. “IT” being a World War that has now gone N.B.C. and entire zones of mass populations are being wiped out. This is the TEOTWAWKI scenario we have worried about and for some – tried to plan for. Most will be completely unprepared and have no clue of what to do. They’re dead people walking without realizing it immediately. When the sudden realization does sit in that they now cannot buy food, clothes, or a firearm to protect themselves from insane opportunist murderers looking for anything they can take by force – the helpless will freak out and erroneously think they can turn to some government agency or go knocking on doors asking for handouts – “Because they are good Christian people and deserve to survive more than the others!”
    “Thar be a fools errand to be sure Mr. Hawkins, sez Aye!!!

    Phase Two:
    All Grocery Stores – and the Warehouses they depend on, operate on a JUST IN TIME inventory control method. No grocer or the warehouse keeps years worth of stock on hand. At best – the warehouses have about 6 to 12 months of limited stock to keep the retailers they supply – operating. Inventories are based on store purchase and traffic studies -records. Therefore – one store will sell much more than another. One will have more on hand inventory than some smaller less profitable store.
    This also applies to the Mega Big Box places like Sam’s club, Costco, etc. All warehouses depend upon Rail Way systems – Semi Truck Delivery services who get stock from Manufacturers – who get their product direct from various commodity Brokers who deal with the ranchers-farmers-fishers. It is a chain with many links to it.
    Only the small independent specialty stores buys direct from the farmer and sells to the consumer. Farmer markets are another seasonable supply system.
    Once any of part of that big supply chain is broken – the system breaks down. Stores cannot be re-supplied. Store shelves are stripped bare in a matter of hours once panic and chaos ensues. It won’t take long after stores are depleted – that armed hordes will find and attack warehouses, shipping terminals and semi-truck rigs on the road.
    Those who did not prepare ahead of time for an event such as this – are ” TOTALLY SCREWED!”

    Phase Three:
    Within a week or less – roving looters and vicious thieves will start systematic sweeps of neighborhoods – going house to house – or apartment to apartment. Many of the gangs will be comprised of 13 to 19 year old teenagers, and young people in their 20’s, who are pretty much sociopaths and outright psychopaths. Today it seems society is far more mentally ill and unhinged or unbalanced than any other time in modern history. You will not be able to deal or negotiate with these animals. These kids abandoned their families for a life as lawless gangsters and robbers. There will also be roving War Lord Armies who also will demand “Protection” payments so that you may live – and they will also demand conscription’s of able bodied males to join the Army and of course – any young pretty female taken for pleasure by the Command Officials. The leadership of these Armies will be delusional and megalomaniac. Even the remnants of the last holdouts of the police will not deal with these teen monsters or the illegal territorial armies. – because there is just too many of them. The reality here is – You’re on your own! The decision you’ll face is – Stay or Get Out of Dodge. Bug-Out!

    Phase Four:
    You’ve decided to get out of the burning and collapsed cities. Wise choice.
    Now where to go? Let’s evaluate your possible choices.
    The Woodlands; unfortunately thousands will think the same thing and sadly all of them think they possess the Old Frontier Family Know How and Spirit. How tough could it be? Right? WRONG! Nearly all of the wild woodlands are unsuitable for human habitation. This includes Mountain Living. What you see on REALITY Television Shows about Survivors, Tree-house dwellers, Mountain Men, Wild Alaska, and the rest are theatrical staged productions with a small army of advisers, experts, writers, actors, camera and sound people, etc. Nothing about any of them is REALITY. It is Adventure Fantasy dressed up to appeal to the know nothing low brow couch potato
    Setting up and creating some type of homestead in an area where there is no infrastructure or others to help you get going via vital labor, supplies, equipment, protection, sharing – will assure you and family won’t make it six months and the first winter will be your demise. Others in the woods will also be out to kill anything they can eat. Within three months – everything from a Squirrel to an Elk will have been eaten. Once there is no type of limit on kills of the creatures that walk on land – swim in water – or fly in the air – entire areas will be stripped clean of everything. Not even a Chipmunk for the dog! Hunters coming upon your little primitive homestead will view it as a opportunity to loot. Anything and everything of any use or value will be taken. The only things left behind will be you and your families bullet hole riddled, raped, butchered corpses. This is also what isolated Pioneers and Homesteaders faced by Indians, Saddle Tramps, Criminals, where law enforcement and self protection could only be had from the barrel of a gun. It is why settlers were quick to form settlements and rudimentary cities with law and order, with an Army Fort or outpost not too far off if needed. Justice was often swift and at the end of rope!
    IF – YOU ARE – ONE of the LUCKY FEW who have a second home out in an area that you “think” will be safe from the marauding throngs – that has been thoughtfully set up to be your bug out location – you might survive. For a while. It’ll greatly depend where it is…
    Farmlands: No American Farmer is going to welcome squatters or campers on their land, in their barn, out buildings, coops, sheds, or old outhouse. They aren’t going to let anyone glean the crop fields, the silos, the cribs, or the feed bins. You will not be allowed to pick crops from trees, plants or vines. Farmers will do anything and everything to keep their places from being over run by city dwellers looking for a place to live and cull of resources. Looters will think they can just match in and kill every animal on the farm and enjoy feasting on cows, pigs, chickens, sheep, goats, horses, including the feral cats. (tastes like chicken!) However – once SHTF – and the farmer too cannot get the supplies he needs to keep his farm running season to season – he’ll sell off everything immediately rather than loose it to starvation, disease, poachers. Crops too will be harvested or burned to the ground. The family farmer – might keep just enough things growing near his house to keep his family fed for a year. It would be the ultimate downsizing of a business to bare bones capacity and production. The Farm family is not going to have great stores of home canned goods or other food to hand out to begging and starving zombies from the city. The farm owner also is not going let 50 families move onto his place and live in the various buildings for free or rent. WHY NOT? Because of the problems of having to deal with their SHIT and PISS raw sewage accumulation which would be overwhelming in a matter of weeks. Digging ditches with a back hoe or bulldozer will not be the answer. The farmer does not want to ruin his under ground water table with thousand of gallons of untreated sewage. Spreading it out in the fields will become a recipe for more problems than it solves. Added to the list of problems, how do you keep these squatters warm in the winter? Or washed and bathed? How much water are they going to consume from the ground water well? How much trash and debris are they going to create a week, a month, a year? Can ANY OF THEM be trusted since they are NOT a family member? What about security and protection of all the property, equipment and supplies and his family?
    The long and short of it is – DO NOT TRY GOING TO THE FARMLANDS. You will be unwelcome and possibly shot if you try to force the issue.

    Lake Camp Grounds, State Parks, National Parks:
    Many will think – ” Hey, let’s just go to the State Park, where we’ll set up our pop-up camper, the BBQ, the lawn chairs, with the Cooler full of sodas and beers and we’ll just vacation away the week or months until we can go home again!” “That sounds like fun, doesn’t kids!” WRONG!!!!!!! Imagine 100,000 families from many areas all converging on a State Park Camp Ground – thinking the park can handle a long invasion of families needing to a place to pee and take a shit, get potable water, bathe, do laundry, plus cook with what ever is at hand – because butane, electric, and charcoal Briquettes aren’t available. The first things to feel the saw-blade and axes are all the trees and brush. Within two months – 50 acres of land would be cleared of anything that burns. The public toilets would long have been filled to capacity and over flowing and people are now going outside anyplace they can find not already covered in slimy excrement ooze and discarded diapers, under wear, towels, rags, paper, and of course infested with millions of files, maggots, mosquito’s, rats, snakes and mud-hornets. Each time it rains – the out door cesspools leach and run off in every direction – including right to the lake where people are washing, and getting non potable water to drink! The stink and stench of this daily deluge of human waste makes the air sickening to breathe. The choking heavy smoke from fires burning trash and anything else has made the whole area look like forest fire situation. People are suffering diphtheria, vomiting, diarrhea, fevers, colds, pneumonia, open sores, skin diseases, lung problems, mouth and gum issues.. There is unchecked lawlessness and muggings, murders and rapes are epidemic. Still want to go to the State Park Camp Ground? YOU DO?!?! Well good luck Charlie – cause you’re gonna need it. Also keep in mind – during any national emergency – there are set plans to be immediately enacted that would close all of the state and national parks because they know this nightmare scenario is exactly what would take place. So – you won’t be able to get in.
    What’s Left?

    Phase FIVE;
    The last resort. Your only real option ( unless your area has been totally destroyed ) is to live away from nay large city by 30 to 50 miles – in an out of the way little burg, hamlet, tiny town, hicks-ville place and create a little Shanghai of your very own without drawing a lot of attention to you or your family and what you’re doing on your property. Live small – unpretentious – down to earth. Live Bohemian-Gypsy-Substance Farmer. Build yourself a Hydroponic Garden system with fish in it.. Coi -fish farm. Have frogs. Raise just enough Chicken and Goose to live on and sell or trade in limited numbers. Container garden, with roof run off and cistern water irrigating the container garden as well as the greenhouse. Have a couple of Goats to milk and learn how to make homemade cheeses and butter. Have apple, plum, cherry, pear trees, and keep bees and harvest honey. Grow berry bushes and grape vines. Make wine. Cordials. Preserves. Can fruits and vegetables you have grown organically. Let the Goose wander – because they are the best property watch and patrol creatures to have. Have lots of firearms and now how to use them expertly. Learn archery skills. Raise your kids with firearms and archery and train them well. Keep you children away from living on and feeding off of social media. It’ll make their minds demented. Buy tons of good used, but cheap, books to read. Try not to hunt for meat. If you want beef or maybe venison – see if there might be a way to barter for it. Other wise learn to live on Foul and Fish. Read survival books and practice the skills. Talk to old timers and find out how they used to do things the old way. Life is a school room full of new lessons and challenges daily. There is always something new to do and the daily things that always need tending. Keep your mouths shut, listen and observe, be vigilant, discuss everything openly daily with each other during family time so that you are aware what is going on with each of them, keep a low profile, stay under the radar, stay private and trust very few outsiders fully, don’t borrow money, don’t use credit, if you can’t afford to buy it with cash or trade for it – don’t acquire it. Hunt for bargains, bicker, negotiate, and try for package – bundle deals. There is nothing wrong with – old, used, well worn, usable still, plenty of life left in it yet, glad to have it, chipped, dented, scratched, bent, ripped, frayed, thread bare, patched, mended, repaired ten times already, funky, out dated, this old thing, you got to be kidding me you’re wearing that, what hobo did you roll to get it – types of items in your life. Once SHTF – if you’re alive and thrive because you’ve been smart and cleaver resourceful – YOU WIN!

  33. There are people that will survive just fine by hunting and foraging. Maybe there will be other hunters for competition but the alpha will rise in that situation. In the “SHTF” scenarios the inner species predators will be on top. Our success won’t be based on what or how much we can hunt, forage, or even grow. It will be whether or not you and yours will be able to defend and hold onto what you have.

  34. I grew up on a homestead . It was a lot of hard work . My father also hunted and fished . Living in a rural area like that . You learn to barter form other farms to get the other things you need . Many things can happen . A particular dry summer your crops can fell . We had to have dogs to protect our other animals that we called dinner form wild dogs , wild cats , bears and hawks .
    Mt father also had been an E6 drill Sargent. He taught us how to forage , track and hunt . Things start get pretty thin in the woods during the winter. And gun safety is another concern . If there is masses of people rooming the woods . It is probably safer to stay out and hunker down somewhere quite depending where you at but then again if you lived in certain areas and if you were a stranger . You might find a shotgun welcome form all who lived in the holler

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  38. The simple truth is that our way of life now supports our current population. Take that away and our civilization collapses. Perhaps you will be one of the lucky ones who survives for a year? What than? How many years do you think you can survive? What quality of life will you have? The answer is you will die sooner than later if you think you can go it alone. The reason our species has been successful is that we have learned to work together and to create systems that support us. What we should be doing is spending our energy on what we do for our future. We are very resourceful and together we can build a better world. We need to stop fearing one another and start carrying about one another and our future… That is what is going to make us survive. Get over your f’ing selves and think about others!

  39. Philip St. John

    I agree living off the land is tough, but I did it. You must have the right mental attitude. I got it by reading books about Ernest Shackleton and Jack London stories. I love nature and learned how to respect it. I bought an old (1978) stone and log hunting lodge on a wilderness island in Alaska and lived there for 15 years. It was the best time of my life. I wish I didn’t have to sell it, but it’s ready for the next adventurer.
    I was planning on living my whole life there, but family situation has changed and now I live in Germany.

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