Nov212011

76 Comments

Could you survive TEOTWAWKI in your state? Here are the Best 5 States and the Worst 5 States for Survival

image by Marxchivist

When you think of  The End Of The World As We Know It, TEOTWAWKI, how survival-friendly is your location?  Have you thought of relocating or are you determined to stay put?  Do you live in a state where survival in hard times will be easy or impossible?  Joel Skousen’s book Strategic Relocation has some of the answers to those questions and may be able to help you assess the security of your current location.

I’ll have a review of his book coming up this week but wanted to highlight ten states he ranks as the best and worst for survive-ability.  He bases his assessments on a number of factors:

  • Climate
  • Population density
  • Cost of living index
  • Food Production
  • Health environment
  • Traffic
  • Politics
  • Taxes
  • Corruption and Crime
  • Gun Liberty
  • Homeschooling Liberty
  • Military Targets & Nuclear Power Plants

One thing I always keep in mind is that no location is perfect, and no matter where you live, there’s such a thing as dumb luck, or the hand of God.  Just ask the people in Joplin, Missouri, whose homes remained completely intact while those of their neighbors were devastated.  Just because a family lives in one of the Top 5 states, doesn’t mean they can kick back, relax, and ignore signs of coming turmoil.  Likewise, residents of one of the Bottom 5 states, may be well prepared enough to mitigate some of the disadvantages.

image by jimmywayne

Take a look at the five states Skousen regards as the best for survival.

TOP 5 STATES:

#1  Utah – Low population density, except in Salt Lake City area. Utah has a  below average cost of living and good food production potential, although irrigation is usually required.  It has good water quality, average tax rates and low property taxes.  It’s crime rate and government corruption levels are moderate, and it’s rated as a very friendly-gun state.  Homeschooling in Utah is easy as it has no homeschooling regulations.  There are only a few military targets.  Overall, there are a lot of areas that are very suitable for survival retreats and numerous small towns that are also good locations.  The 50% of Mormon (LDS) population means that more people here are preparedness minded than anywhere else in the country.  Survival type products are easy to find, and a lot of LDS resources are open to non-members.

#2  Idaho – Idaho offers a low cost of living and low population density.  The food production potential is average with irrigation being required in most parts of the state. There is good water quality, low levels of pollution, but higher than average taxes.  You’ll find a low crime rate here with very friendly gun laws.  Homeschoolers won’t have to deal with any regulations, and overall the state as a very high Personal Liberty rating.  Many people here are preparedness minded, the state is more conservative than most, and there are numerous locations for good survival retreats or residential areas suitable for survival-minded families.

#3  Montana – A classic survivalist state with very low population density.  It has a moderate cost of living, excellent water quality, low taxes, and a moderate crime rate.  It ranks high in gun liberty and has very low homeschooling regulations.  However near Great Falls there is a the largest Minuteman missile base in the country, which makes it a primary target for hundreds of warheads.  Stay away from that area and you have a state that rates high in personal freedom and has plenty of room to spread out and explore.

#4  Washington — As long as you avoid the Seattle area and give it a very wide berth, there’s a lot about the state to make it very survive-able.  As a state, it has an average population density and cost of living index.  Most of the state has a nice growing season of 150-210 days per year and the water quality is good.  It has moderately good gun laws but more homeschooling regulation than many other states.  One nice feature is that it has no income tax.

image by Beverly & Pack

#5  Colorado – Joel Skousen gives Colorado 4 stars in spite of some significant, primary military targets near Denver and Colorado Springs, and, he claims, “secret” military bases.  Outside Denver, there’s a below average population density, average cost of lving in the state, and depending on where you live, you have either a below average growing season or a very nice one with 180 days or so.  Colorado offers below average taxes and a low crime rate.  Denver has restrictive gun laws but other parts of the state are gun-friendly.

 

And now, for the states that have the worst rankings.

BOTTOM 5 STATES:

#50  Hawaii – Great vacation destination but a horrible place to be if the s ever  hits the fan.  As an island, most necessities have to be shipped in, including fuel and most food.  Cost of living is very high, the soil is fairly poor for general farming, and depending on which side of an island you live on, you could get too much or too little rainfall.  Hawaii is the 5th highest in state taxes and property taxes and has a very high level of corruption in government and in the police department.  There are strict gun laws and it’s home to several primary military targets.  Additionally, there are plenty of racial tensions here.  If tourism should ever die, the entire state would collapse in just about every sense of the word.

#49  Florida – High population density overall.  Florida averages 45 tornadoes a  year, plus its fair share of hurricanes. Food production potential is good, but only for a few specific crops, not for general farming.  It has higher than average water pollution, and some areas  have high air pollution.  Additionally, it has a very high crime rate.  Skousen describes it as one big trap zone.  There are multiple military targets, and some areas will be impossible to evacuate without a fast boat.  Without electricity the climate is very difficult to live in.

image by ferret111

#48  Rhode Island – Rhode Island has a very high population density, high cost of living, and restrictive laws when it comes to personal liberty.  For example, strict building permits are required, there’s highly centralized planning,  restrictive gun laws with a 7 day waiting period for making a purchase, and homeschooling is highly regulated.  Because the state is so small, there really is nowhere safe to hunker down or use as a survival location.  There are numerous lakes and creeks to cross, making evacuations potentially dangerous or impossible.  Rhode Island also has heavy traffic and high taxes.

#47  Massachusetts – Very high population density and the 14th worst traffic in the country.  Massachusetts has a high cost of living, very high violent crime rate, and restrictive gun laws.  Homeschooling is highly regulated and there are high levels of corruption at the state and local levels.

#46  New Jersey – New Jersey has a high population density, very high cost of living, and heavy handed state and local governments.  Building permits are required for everything.  Skousen reports, “Some localities even require a permit to replace kitchen appliances.”  There are red light cameras, high levels of surface water pollution, heavy traffic problems, and the highest tax burden of any state.  Additionally, there is very high corruption in government and stringent gun laws.

 

Are you ready to pack up and move from your state?  Before putting up that For Sale sign, assess your own circumstances and, very importantly, the connections you have.  Moving to a so-called “survival friendly” state will mean getting to know neighbors all over again and, likely, being far away from your closest friends and family members.  When I think of moving to the ideal survival retreat, I know my kids would grow up not knowing their cousins, and I would watch my parents grow old without having me nearby to lend support.  No matter where you live, there are trade-offs.

The Top 5 or Bottom 5 may not tell the whole story.  Do your own research and consult multiple sources if you’re thinking of either moving or establishing a location as a survival retreat.

 

There may be links in the post above that are “affiliate links.” This means if you click on the link and purchase the item, I will receive an affiliate commission, which does not affect the price you pay for the product. Regardless, I only recommend products or services I use personally and believe will add value to my readers. 

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(76) Readers Comments

  1. I look forward to your upcoming review of this book. I have thought about buying it to get more indepth information on my area, but since I don't intend to relocate I thought my money would be better spent elsewhere. I did read though that he takes state by state and breaks down the best parts of each state to be in and I would like that information. Do you think there's enough of that kind of info to justify the purchase? Thanks and hope you and your family have a happy Thanksgiving!
    MaryB in GA

    • If you\’re not thinking about moving or buying real estate somewhere, then I wouldn\’t suggest the book, at $35 or so. It\’s interesting to learn about his observations of different states, Canada, and other countries in terms of surviving though.

      • I really like Colorado, especially the western part of the state. Plenty of sun, high elevation, rain and snow good for water and crops.

  2. I was surprised about Utah – in one of the peak oil books I read, she suggested that a place receive at least 30 inches of rain a year in order to avoid a lot of water issues, water issues being one of the most difficult to deal with. I'm in the Souther Appalachians and think it's a great spot – they say people didn't "feel" the Depression because they already knew how to make do and to make do with less than most people. The only difficulty in my county is the relatively high cost of living, as there are a lot of second home people that increase the cost of food, gas, etc.

    • James Rawles doesn\’t recommend Utah either, also because of the lower amount of rainfall. Skousen lives there so maybe he\’s a little biased.

  3. Looking at this on the state level is probably the only practical way to do it, but I still question the usefulness of such a list. I live in one of the "bottom of the list" states (Florida), and I wouldn't even give relocating a second thought. If I lived just a few miles from where I am though, the situation could be vastly different. There are SO many different factors involved and just a short distance can make a huge difference.

    As you mentioned, having a life-time of close friends and family is incredibly important. A good reputation and solid roots in an area will count for far more than most of the items on his criteria list. A list like that makes for interesting discussion, and if you're having to leave your current location, then it's better than nothing. Bottom line – think it through carefully using an honest appraisal of your own very specific situation.

    Stephen Clay McGehee
    SouthernAgrarian.com

    • Why do you assume that the 'folks' in the bad neighborhoods are incapable of walking a few miles….TO EAT YOUR DINNER? Florida is a FUNNEL TRAP…18 million people and the only way out is NORTH I-75!

      I pre-evacuted Florida three years ago, after 22 years of hurricanes, foreigners, high taxes, heat and hoardes of bugs. I still can't figure out how I lasted that long. Life in the Ozarks is PURE BLISS!

      • Because real life is quite different from looking at a map and coming to a conclusion. I've lived here all my life and I'm almost 60. My father's family moved here from Alabama in the 1920's because the farming was better here than it was there, and my mother was born here. I think I have a pretty good sense of the pros and cons of living here in Florida.

        It is important to consider human nature when thinking about "the golden hordes" and how people act and react when they face a real threat.

        Another important question to ask: You said, "Florida is a FUNNEL TRAP…18 million people and the only way out is NORTH I-75! " – What could possibly prompt 18 million people to decide to leave Florida? Where would they be heading to? Think it through – it just doesn't make sense.

        Suit yourself though. I've got to admit that IF I were to relocate, I'd be looking at a certain place in Arkansas. You've probably picked a good place and I wish you well. As for me and my family, we will remain right where we are.

        • Stephen, your comments are insightful and I know a lot of people have determined that where they are right now is the best place for them, regardless of what any expert says. There are thousands of variables that will come into play if our country ever experiences a collapse. I have all the respect in the world for James Rawles, but I've questioned the whole "golden hoard" thing for the very reason you mention — where are they going to go and will parents really grab their kids and head into parts unknown? I'm not convinced. Now, where I currently live is a death trap if something horrific should happen in the Phoenix. There's nothing but desert around us and, really, nowhere to escape TO, which is why I still think Hawaii is going to be a difficult place to survive in. And, of course, it all depends on WHAT happens! An EMP? Economic collapse? Nuclear attack? We in Phoenix could be far better off than those in some other survival "haven", depending on what happens and during which season of the
          year.

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  5. I've considered the survivablity of my current situation. I live in an appalachian portion of Ohio. I decently sized town but not a dense population beyond unless you go to a larger city like Columbus. A decent growing season and not much danger in the way of natural disaster. There are also lots of woods and wildlife, lots of hunters. I don't know where Ohio ranks on the list, but I feel pretty safe here. I would recommend it.

  6. As a new prepper, it is a little disheartening to see my state (Massachusetts) at the bottom 5, however it isn't a surprise. Most of the east coast is densely populated. I don't have an option, so this is where I will be hunkering down. I think if you live in a location that is not the best scenario, assess your surroundings and determine what the obstacles are? Perhaps you need to pay extra attention to security, which is a priority for me, since I live on the outskirts of a medium sized city. Houses are close together and I worry about looting/home invasions. Some of my food storage is easy to find within my home, but some is also hidden. Gun laws are strict here, but a permit is obtainable if you are willing to put the required time into it. Every location has their pros and cons. I am making a list of what I feel each one is and what can I do to overcome it as best as I can.

    • mass is my home as well, I think Boston area skews

      These types of reviews, I live in a rural spot have a LTC

      And other than the cost of living don’t have many

      Issues. If I lived in springfield area or Boston area I’d

      Probably run for the hills tho ;)

      • Please note that one of the most high profile preppers, chris martenson, lives in mass. Its not just about the state. Its about the community you form and working together to ensure thorough preparation

    • Look at it this way; CA isn't in the list. LA is probably darn near as big as Rhode Island, which is on the list, and LA is undoubtedly a far worse option than Rhode Island. Mass is probably easier to get out of than CA simply because it is so much smaller, and that is a big mitigating factor, IMHO.

      • I have Skousen’s book and his rating system is based on several things. Low ratings for RI and MA are not just due to population density but proximity to military bases and other targets ie Nuclear Reactors and being vulnerable to natural disasters not to mention high cost of living among other things.

  7. Relocation just isn't an option for many.

    And in anything short of a total Mad Max collapse millions of people from the more urban areas will sweep across the land. All that natural food and water will be taken (or spoiled) very very quickly.

  8. Just like real estate markets and micro-climes. You can find a gem in a field of coal.

    Rawles has his Redoubt, and there are many good points. But if I could move, I'd consider some remote ocean front to bug out to. Not to boast, but I think I can desalinate enough to get by and the ocean won't be fished out.

  9. I am curious to read the book and find out where California is. The extremely overcrowded LA/Orange/SD counties areas still have some surprisingly rural areas, but water is almost nill if a the agri-pumps stopped. Northern Cal, is rural in a lot of places, but again, water is tough. And moving to the beach in the lost coast area (north of Ukiah on the beach side of 101) is rough & desolate with a usually churning sea. Desalting sea water is complicated. I think I am doing the old fashioned list-what I need, want, can put up with, etc. It is always 6 of 1, half dozen of another.

    • We spent some time in northern-ish CA a couple of months ago and were just about ready to move there. We stayed with friends who live in a beautiful community out in the rolling hills….but then we remembered Sacramento and the crazy people there who make the laws that affect everyone. There's no telling what they'll do next to add to the tax burden of the citizens and business owners and what rights they'll figure out how to limit. So, CA is no longer on our list.

    • I live in Northern California, and find we have everything pretty readily available.. there are other rural areas besides the Lost Coast/Kings Range area.. Plentiful water, trees, agriculture..Many here are preppers out of necessity… it’s just how we live and always have.

      • Terri, it really does depend on specific locations. There are parts of California which are excellent locations, even in a SHTF scenario. I didn’t write this list, BTW, but my main issue with California are the people running the state and the laws and taxes they come up with every year.

  10. Interesting information, but I'm staying in TN. The northwest states are too cold in winter, meaning a shorter crop season and too much energy expended cutting wood for the fireplace. Utah is too dry and residents don't even own the rain that falls on their property. If the grid goes down, so does irrigation; there will be few crops grown in Utah. TN has moderate winters; many days we don't need heat at all. We do have hot days in summer, which is why I have a basement; it's 15-18 degrees cooler down there. Our rainfall is good, we have rivers, creeks, etc. We get a fairly early start on spring planting, and I've eaten homegrown tomatoes on Christmas Day. While the presence of a particular religious group may seem an advantage to some, I dislike it because of the temptation to turn doctrine into law. I'll refrain from saying a word about vampires in Washington state. . .

    • Tennessee is actually one of the highest rated states east of the Mississippi.

  11. I live in MA and I don't know why it made the "worst" list. There are areas, such as mine, that are well suited to survival. Obtaining an LTC is relatively easy once you take a course, pass the CORI and get the blessing of the local police chief.
    One would think the entire state is inhabited by city dwellers. It's not.
    You really have to live here before you pass judgement.

  12. I am interested to see where North Carolina lists. I would tend to think we are near the bottom. Fairly populated and some high risk military targets. Trying to learn more to see if we can survive TEOTWAWKI

  13. Wonder where VA fits in?

    • Not anywhere near the top, that\’s for sure. One survivalist said, \”You can tell if your city is a terrorist target by looking for large, white buildings.\” What he meant was cities with important courthouses, capitol buildings, etc. are prime targets, and that certainly includes much of VA and the DC area.

    • Down near Roanoke is undoubtedly higher. NoVA / DC? Not so much. But as much as DC has to be the #1 nuclear target on the planet, the reality is that if it's hit, most of those there will stay on the MD side because the bridges and tunnels (Metro) will be gone so they won't have much choice unless they have a boat.

      And when you get past Fairfax and eastern Prince William, you get into a lot more agriculture a lot more quickly than big cities like NYC or LA or Chicago have that close to them. And I don't think VA is so much "gun friendly" as actively pro-gun. There's a reason the NRA headquarters are in VA, not DC or MD.

      Of course, Norfolk and that area would also be a military target, but not so much farther inland. So, I agree that there are some big targets, but I think there are also some better areas. One positive is that it really isn't near NYC. Refugees from NYC would have thinned out and gone elsewhere before hitting VA (mostly into PA, NJ and the New England States, I would expect), Philly refugees would go into PA, NJ and MD. Baltimore refugees might make it into VA, but they would still need to cross the Potomac and it doesn't seem to be heavily bridged. KWIM? I could be wrong because I haven't really looked into it.

  14. If it ever falls completely, no one is getting out alive. You can delude yourself to whatever you think, but your toast.
    Jim Rawles is an idiot who is making PILES of money off this end of the world thing that has been spouted for about 50 years now. Mel Tappan. ha.

    • I disagree that, \’no one is getting out alive.\’ That may be true in some urban centers that are already decaying and have high levels of crime and corruption, but there\’s too much variety across the country to say that every village, every community will experience the same fate. Rawles may be making some money, true, but he\’s filling a gap of information. People are afraid and don\’t know what to do next. Bloggers like Rawles, and hopefully myself, are giving directives to people who have no idea what it means to think like a self-reliant person.

  15. SM,

    I noticed neither of the Dakotas nor a single Great Lakes state made the top 5. I suppose many other states could "tie" for top 5 if things were weighted more on sustainable agriculture and water resources. I would suggest reviewing these extensive agriculture maps:
    http://gardenserf.wordpress.com/2011/06/14/fortre

    You are correct that many western states are heavily dependent on the Oglala acquifer for irrigation since they lack adequate rainfall. The old midwest does pretty well, though.

    • Skousen gives North Dakota 2.5 stars and South Dakota 3 stars. Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan each received 3 stars, as did Texas! You'll have to read his summaries to understand why he rates these the way he does.

  16. Not sure some people know exactly where virginia is. Pennsylvania, Delaware, and Ohio are all considerably closer to DC then are parts of VA. Only 2 of the 95 counties in VA touch the DC border. you would need at least 2 tanks of gas if not 3 to get to the southwest corner of VA.

    • LOL. I think you'll like my reply above about VA. :-)

  17. Something to remember about us crazy mormons – only about 5-10% of us actually deserve the image of preparadness enthusaist. The rest of us are just as ignorant about reality and reliant on our modern society as anyone else.

    As for growing crops – I have always taken advice like yours and Rawles', and scratched my head when looking at information like this: http://www.sage.wisc.edu/iamdata/

  18. North Florida is a great area to live in… plenty of lakes, rivers & springs “more natural springs then anywhere in the world” Plus the weather is great year round even without A/C and you can grown vegetables year round too… I think your you should split south Florida and rank it number 49… North Florida should be ranked in the top 10… Nick

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  20. Texas, baby!

  21. I disagree with much of this assessment. Just to start with logically when the meltdown occurs, which states have the highest taxation isn't going to matter either way. Secondly, the statement regarding Hawaii is purely just bull. Having lived there for much of my life, regardless of whether their is shipping or not who cares. We as a nation are able to feed ourselves quite nicely from the Ocean and the Land. And believe me we have plenty of Ammo.

    • I think his inclusion of things like tax rates and homeschool laws has more to do with actual LIVING there than whether or not those factors will impact survive-ability in a collapse. One of the problems with Hawaii is that all fuel has to be shipped there, and there is no way off the island unless you have a good, fast boat or an airplane. Some people who are used to living close to the land may do just fine, but there are many important crops Hawaii's climate just doesn't support.

    • Agreed! No Ka Oi!

  22. Come see us in Ecuador: http://JourneymanJack.com/ Quito is the Capital, right on the Equator, at 9,350 ft. (1.77 miles) above sea level in the heart of the Andes Mountains, where the weather is 50's in the evening, and 70's during the day all year round. Valley of Eternal Sprintime! Do not hesitate to contact me for your relocation or exploration needs!

  23. It may be true that Hawaii is a bad location if you live on Oahu. I live on Kauai and we will do just fine thank you very much. Besides my house is almost paid for.

  24. I live in upper East Tennessee in the Tri-city area. The largest is Johnson City with 60,000 residents. We have several rivers, creeks, TVA lakes, and over 40 inches of rain a year. You can grow almost anything here except for tropical varieties. We have few tornadoes, earthquakes, blizzards, etc. However we do have a couple of military targets with BAE ordinance and Nuclear Fuel services that make nuclear fuel for the navy. Besides that, it is rural. Knoxville and Asheville are over 90 miles away in opposite directions. As far as gun laws their is NO STATE REGISTRY. As long as you pass a back ground check which takes at most 30 minutes buy whatever.
    Southwest Virginia is also a very good place. It is almost the same as NorthEast Tennessee except you are in Virginia unfortunately. The mountains of Western North Carolina would also be great.

  25. I found that the top states were also states with major winter climates ? Lived in Montana for 15 years, N of Gt Falls (240 ICBM MM3's) 85 miles with 2 MM3s just east of town. ( we had a nulcear attack map at the hosptial showing evacutation routes to the NW towards Glacier Park area ) I now live in Texas (since 1997) so my reference to Mt taxes would be old , but, the taxes in Montana (fed,state,local, etc) were considerableI thought. Moving to Tlexas I was able to register and license 3 cars for the cost of one in Montana! Ive not read book but would be curious as to where Texas fit?

    • I was surprised to see that he gave Texas only 3 stars.

  26. Utah used to have pure, delicious, fresh mountain water until a decade ago when the Feds began taking it over for their NSA project and filled it with so many chemicals your first impulse on tasting is to spit it out immediately. Now most culinary water rates an average of 1.5 out of 10. The Mormon to Non-Mormon population is as much as 75%-25% which can affect the local conservative culture strongly; make sure you can live with that – some can't and have fled. There are some military targets: Hill Air Force Base, Tooele Chemical Weapons Depot, the new NSA Center, and Dugway Proving Grounds (aka The Real Area 51 or Area 52). Underground tunnels supposedly connect these areas to Denver Airport, etc. Utah is a mountain desert, formerly an ocean. So the soil is very salty, requiring much water, yet rainfall is 2nd lowest in the nation – only Nevada gets less. Being high altitude means hotter summers and colder winters – as low as -60F in Randall, for example. That's why some sarcastic tourists dub Utah The Brown State – there aren't many trees and some local businessmen prefer brown suits. But watching the sunset from the mountains over the lake is one of the world's grandest views.

  27. What about Louisiana, Mississippi, and Alabama? Does anyone know where they fall on the list? We live in Louisiana and are thinking about going to Alabama where we have family.

  28. Are there any books on assessing and setting up property where you are digging in? or does this book cover that. Not sure where SC ranks.

    • SC ranks low (only 1.5 stars out of 5 stars) mostly due to backwards thinking such as banning Naturopathic Medicine, strict building permits, high corruption amongst state legislators, judges, police and lawyers, polluted surface water, and 91 percent of municipal water is fluoridated, Also there are 4 nuclear power plants and 8 military bases which could be potential targets. Skousen says the best areas in SC are in the upstate.

  29. Interesting, but I'm staying put. Utah has serious water problems; people don't even legally own the rain that falls on their land. Few crops can be grown there without irrigation, and chances of irrigation after SHTF: 0. Same for Colorado. Montana, Washington, and Idaho have long, cold winters; this means a lot of time spent chopping down trees for firewood, which equals a great energy/time expenditure.

  30. The lsit seems odd to me. Such things as permitting problems? A difficulty in normal times, but this is supposed to be about TEOTWAWKI, and the criteria for and against is bogus in many regards. Please try again.

    • The author, Joel Skousen, includes things like permits to evaluate a state\’s level of personal liberty. Why move to a state that has overly restrictive laws?

      • I have read the book over a few times, and while some of the information is very interesting, much of it seems impractical. Utah is the highest rated state but gets such little water and has a short growing season. And Hawaii receives zero stars, why? It seems to me that if things got bad here in America, Hawaii would bond and work together, almost as a separate nation. What makes Hawaii so intriguing to me (that is, if you can afford a home with some land .5 acres at least would be good, the big island has some cheaper land) is year round rainfall. Water is the #1 most important resource in a crisis situation, not only for drinking, but for irrigation as well. With a simple water catchment system you insure yourself pure drinking water year round. Then on top of that, if you set up a small farm/garden you can insure yourself food forever, regardless of SOARING food prices. Lettuces, onions, cherry tomatoes, cucs, celery, carrots, beans, strawberries, broccoli, blueberries etc… grow pretty much year round. On top of that, if you plant a couple fruit trees, you ensure yourself fruit year round. Some lesser known tropical fruit trees produce in the hundreds of pounds of fresh fruit yearly. Of course there is also the ocean with an unlimited supply of fish (i guess you would need a boat though?). The final positive is no heating or cooling expenses, year round. No finding, chopping and storing wood, no expensive a/c to worry about. I am seriously considering buying land on the big island (1 acre minimum) and would like any insight as to why Hawaii would be a poor place to move in a survival situation. Lets all cross our fingers there isnt a major collapse (which seems inevitable) and a “mad max” situation.

        • Putting Utah first on the list when it doesn’t get much rainfall was interesting to me, too. As far as Hawaii is concerned, it seemed that is big issue was being trapped, as well as parts of Hawaii being a possible primary target in a war and there’s really no escaping it in a worst case scenario. Not sure it deserves to be last on the list,though.

        • I moved to the Big Island and consider it the great place for an economic collapse. There is a huge grey market already in place here. I think it would rapidly adapt to an economic collapse. The weather is mild and we don’t use air conditioning or heat. Most of the neighbors have gardens and chickens. People may laugh at the hippies up near Pahoa, but I have seen all those fruit trees they have growing.
          I figure that we could survive on this island with no food coming in. Sure we would lose weight, but I am sure we wouldn’t starve. Remember, most people waste about a third of the food they buy. I am not a hard core prepper, but I do have a lot of extra food in bins. There is a wild fruit growing everywhere called strawberry guava which i personally can’t stand, but keep us alive if necessary. Oh, we have about 25% of our power from geothermal here too. Not sure how it would be allocated, but at least the island wouldn’t be totally devoid of power. They are building more geothermal plants too.
          The problem with articles like this is that they combine all of a state as a single area. I have no doubt that living on Oahu could be a living hell if things got even moderately bad. A place like Montana may be great, but I suspect you might be working your ass off to prepare for the harsh winters, which brings up another point. Weather has a big effect on health and I am not getting any younger. Those harsh cold winters may be deadly without modern medicine. Another point for Hawaii.

  31. My husband and I left Montana 16 years ago because the jobs up there in my husband’s field of underground mining disappeared . We now live in Nevada.

    We still own a house up there, 2 bdrm/1bth, and pay more in property tax, power bills, and insurance than we do in Nevada. Granted, water in Nevada is a major issue, but we have 2+ acres and our own pump. We are putting in a generator for the pump as soon as we get the new pumphouse in. Temperatures are better even though we have more drastic swings (19 degrees tonight, 61 tomorrow).

    We are setting up the house in Montana (Just-In-Case) as a bug-out location, but I doubt we will ever need it. Northern Nevadans are more freedom loving than most of the people we know in Montana. Our community here is more prepared and we look out for each other.

    All in all, as much as I love Montana and would like to live there, the tax structure isn’t conducive to retiring there. Property tax, Income Tax, Personal Property Tax (Cars, etc) are more than out of line. Even the friends we have in Montana believe that the government will take care of them (because most of them are on assistance). And I don’t believe in the “Welfare State” attitude that is currently prevalent in Montana government really represents the “Do it yourself” government that I grew up with. Nor do I choose to participate in it. While we were there I wrote letters, attended meetings, etc. to let the legislature know that I disagreed with what they were doing, but we were ignored.

    I didn’t mean for this to be a diatribe against Montana. Every state has points that you have to deal with whether you like them or not. In Nevada it is Harry Reid. But no matter where you decide to live, YOU are responsible for making your life the best you can. And when you work to make it better, you win.

    • Great comments!! Every state has advantages and disadvantages and everyone’s perspective is different as to what is tolerable.

  32. This was an interesting post to read through…and it made me wonder about South Carolina….we have low taxes, embrace home schoolng without too much back lash, a great growing season, mountains and ocean, fair rainfall (well…most years I think) and an easy route to a concealed weapons permit. Most of us rednecks can farm and can, hunt and/or fish and generally understand that America is swirling the drain and the new martial law crap of O’s new executive order is just a mess waiting to happen. I’d like to think we should have been in the top 5 unless I am missing something major about this state. I am not moving unless it is out of the country so likely not getting the book…besides my reading list is all “fulled up” for some time to come:). I am noting too that i can’t find anywhere outside this country that would be easier than roughing it here…unless I get to leave with the trumpet blast that surely is not far off…

  33. As east coast residents fairly close to NYC (w/in 50 miles) we put a lot of thought into our “bug-out” location – must be easily accessible to us (less than 3 hours drive along a not-very-traveled route), must be very rural, preferably even off of GPS, must have access to safe water, must have enough land to farm and hunt and must have a few neighbors of “like minds”. We found it in New Hampshire and due to very careful financial planning, we bought 5 acres for cash and my husband built our house from the ground up by himself. We have are off the grid and have a solar system, heat with wood and a good water supply along with great neighbors. New Hampshire has very 2nd Amendment based gun laws (ie., none except a background check required by the feds that one you pass they put through the paper through the shredder) and a very self sufficient and libertarian thinking population. My opinion, if you are on the east coast and are of a hearty mindset, New Hampshire is a great place to bug-out to.

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  44. In any catastrophe whatever its nature, the coastal regions and the great population centers are the most vulnerable. I believe that it is in outlying rural areas where the odds of survival increase and the fight for survival becomes the most desperate. I put this thesis to the test in my novel, ‘Pale As Hope’ where three misfits struggle to survive the cataclysm of a freak pandemic only to discover that they are humankind’s last ditch hope. Watch the video. http://youtu.be/DO6VvS8DI6I

  45. I haven’t read the book, so I can only speak to this post and some comments here. Having been a military wife (he served in 2 different branches), I have lived in several states mentioned. Relocating before or after a collapse, either way you are looking at learning how to live in a new area. Not just the type of people there (that will be changing often until some form of civility returns), but climate, altitude, and other forms of adjustments. I’ve lived on the coast, middle of the country, in the mountains and on an island.
    I am at a place now where I am comfortable, I know what’s around me enough to know the known threats as well as how to manage around those. Not saying I know ALL the answers but enough that relocating is only an option in the most extreme event beyond total collapse.
    Having lived in the plains, I know the northern parts no matter the state, are difficult to live in which is why the population isn’t there already. The coast….someone spoke of plenty to eat from the ocean….wonder how many know there are increasing dead zones in the oceans? Living in the rural and wild country so you can survive on wildlife? How many are figuring the same way…history says that’s how species get exterminated when man wipes them out to eat. Basically, unless one can move very soon, get adapted quickly, and unless you are living in a really bad place. I have come to the opinion, it’s better to stay in place and deal with the monsters known because of your familiarity with what’s around you.
    In truth (I can be wrong and hope I am) I don’t believe we have too much longer to relocate and become familiar with the area and people. I have family in many parts of the country. I am concerned about them. I am making plans so they can come to me or if I am wrong and need to bug out, I would have somewhere to go; BUT it would take a lot, at this point, for me to change my mind. Great discussion and thanks since I’ve just found your homesite.

  46. jim rawles is an idiot and a complete fraud, if not simply a naive, undereducated twit… at best, he’s a clown with ZERO experience in anything other than shopping for survival supplies and living in a delusional fantasy world… if you think “bugging in” is going to yield you anything more than a solid gang ass-rape and theft of your goods, you’re as stupid as he is… try googling some REAL WORLD examples of what happens when the SHTF, like in china… wake up and realize that rawles is a moron profiting off your ignorance and nothing more.

    • Wow. Without knowing you and based solely on this comment, I’d say you have some truly significant anger issues. Nowhere in this article is your nemesis, James Rawles, mentioned. Did you even read it?? You sound like a fool who needs remedial help with basic writing skills. Please take your rage elsewhere.

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